🏭 Irwin Boris: Master the "Boring" Industrial Real Estate That Compounds 8%+ Returns 📈

Want to learn more about investing in real estate? Visit https://www.therealestateinvestingclub.com
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THE ANTI-MULTIFAMILY STRATEGY: WHY INDUSTRIAL IS KING 👑
In this eye-opening episode of The Real Estate Investing Club, I sit down with Irwin Boris, CPA and real estate veteran who cracked the code on boring-but-profitable industrial investing. After dealing with underground water line disasters and insurance cost tripling in multifamily, Irwin pivoted to an asset class that compounds revenue at 3% annually while protecting against maintenance nightmares.

INSIDER SECRETS: HOW TO SCORE 8-9% CAP RATES TODAY 💰
While everyone chases multifamily, Irwin reveals how he's finding industrial deals with 8-9% cap rates in secondary markets. His strategy? Look for buildings under $100 per square foot when replacement cost runs $150-200 PSF. Target properties with 8-15 tenants to ensure cash flow continues even during turnover. The key insight: "Make your money on the buy" by being patient and letting deals chase you.

THE WORKFORCE STICKINESS ADVANTAGE 🏗️
One fascinating strategy Irwin shares involves single-tenant deals tied to local workforce. Example: A 500-employee facility running three shifts daily can't move more than a few miles without losing staff. This creates incredible lease security that justifies paying slightly below market rent in exchange for workforce retention.

SMALL BAY SECRETS: WHERE TO FIND THESE GEMS 🔍
Small bay properties remain hidden in plain sight across America. Look for buildings with multiple roll-up doors housing plumbers, electricians, and even unique tenants like tropical fish farms and nuclear pharmacies. These properties offer higher returns than traditional office while requiring less intensive management than multifamily.

MARKET TIMING STRATEGY: BUY DURING UNCERTAINTY 📊
With major players like Blackstone and Clarion Partners signaling now as prime buying time amid tariff uncertainty, Irwin explains why the next 2-4 years offer exceptional opportunities. While new development slows and financing tightens, buyers with cash can capitalize on motivated sellers and reduced competition.

THE CPA ADVANTAGE IN REAL ESTATE 📚
Irwin credits his accounting background for deal-making success, sharing how he educated bank underwriters on reading tax returns properly. Understanding depreciation, reading financial statements, and properly vetting tenant financials gives him significant edge in deal analysis and negotiation.

FROM CPA TO OPERATOR: TOUCHING EVERY ASSET CLASS 💼
After starting in accounting, Irwin gained invaluable experience working 15+ years as a lender and for real estate operators across multifamily, office, retail, hotel, and industrial sectors. This comprehensive understanding allows him to spot value others miss and structure deals properly from day one.

REAL ESTATE IS RELATIONSHIPS: THE INVESTOR PARTNER MODEL 🤝
Breaking industry norms, Irwin personally handles investor relations, comparing college choices with investors' kids and discussing vacations. This relationship-first approach creates loyal partnerships and repeat investors who trust his expertise. His philosophy: "I like to cultivate long-term friendships with our investors - we treat them as partners."

Connect with Irwin Boris on LinkedIn, Instagram, or Facebook to

Join our community of RE investors on Skool here: https://www.skool.com/the-real-estate-investing-club-5101/about?ref=44459ba83f5540f19109c8a530db4023

Transcript

0:01

[Music]

0:10

yeah All right Welcome back to another episode of the Real Estate Investing Club I hope you guys are having a great

0:17

day whatever day it is for you and uh whenever you're listening to this As always it is Friday here on the podcast

0:22

and I'm telling you this is a perfect Friday in Seattle Washington Well Tacoma Washington It is It's just so

0:29

beautifully sunny out there and I am stoked for I think I've said this on the last like five episodes but I'm stoked

0:35

for spring I'm so glad it's here So yeah we're bringing the the energy to you guys and uh it's a good day for a second

0:41

reason because we have Irwin Boris with us on the podcast from Payar Capital Irrwin focuses on flex and uh industrial

0:49

small bay flex and industrial So this should be a good episode It's always an asset class that I've been interested in

0:55

and uh it's it's great to hear more from investors that are out there in the field So Irwin thanks for hopping on the

1:01

podcast No my pleasure Thank you for having me Gabe Um happy to share my my

1:06

million years of knowledge with anyone who wants to learn more about you know a really boring conservative investment

1:12

class that just continues to compound revenue Well as you said before the podcast boring is better in real estate

1:18

That's for sure Um especially especially the last couple of years you know with interest rates moving up and insurance

1:23

costs tripling and uh construction delays and prices rising it really you

1:29

know sort of led for the perfect storm for a lot of you know ships to take on water Yeah exactly Um so let's start it

1:36

out Let's we always like to start by hearing stories and kind of how people got to where they are Um you've been in

1:42

the game for a long time I'm sure you got tons of good stories So why don't you just take us back to the beginning and tell us you know how you got here

1:49

sure my pleasure Uh I was I got out of school I worked went to work for an

1:55

accounting firm I took the CPA exam We had a lot of uh real estate related clients And uh this was back when when

2:03

accounting was done on monstrous pieces of manual paper There were no computers involved And nice Uh I sort of get tired

2:11

of putting numbers in in boxes And so I went to work for one of the firm's clients who was a a and still is a very

2:18

large owner operator of of apartments in the New York area and now in other states Uh and they taught me the

2:23

management side of the business And so I got a good appreciation for actually what went into those numbers that I was

2:29

looking at as an accountant And so you know a lot of times you look at you know financial statements and you're like oh the

2:36

numbers look reasonable How do you know they look reasonable you know you know until you really I

2:41

guess touch the operations and you know what goes into it and how to make those numbers and why they fluctuate from year

2:46

to year you you sort of get a better understanding and you know and through my my my career you know I've spent you

2:52

know 15 plus years on off as a lender I think 18 years as a lender and the other half working for owners you know either

2:59

doing you know asset management uh uh you know financial structuring and acquisitions

3:05

And so I I've really touched all the food groups from multif family to office to to retail hotel uh and to industrial

3:14

And you know as a personal investor you know everybody's a lot of people start either single family or multif family

3:21

And early on I noticed that a lot of the multif family deals so some some of them really worked out much better than

3:27

expected Some of them not so much and some of them didn't work out because you know you can't see things no matter how

3:33

much due diligence you do You know you can't see what the auto the underground water lines and waistlines look like You

3:40

can't see into the walls and you never know what's back there Yeah Yeah Some people have gone so far as you you put a

3:46

a camera down a waistline to see if the waste but you the supply lines are very narrow You're not looking at that stuff

3:53

And I I had one investment I was in where we had to dig up a lot of it and replace supply lines That was unexpected

4:00

And you know so as I went through the my real estate journey and and having worked with others that were in this

4:07

industrial and shallow bay class I'm like well this is great you know you

4:13

don't have a the tenants are paying a hund most most if not all of the operating expenses Uh b they need to be

4:22

there C the insurance doesn't swing on industrial like it does on multif family

4:28

because of all the natural disasters and I don't have to really depend on big

4:35

big capital expenditures to renovate apartments to try to get another $200 or $300 a month And so it became really

4:42

it's a really boring investment And and if I had someone said to me "Why do you

4:47

like it?" I said "It's easy The revenue compounds every year." Like if you took

4:52

your body weight and compounded at 3% a year for the next seven or 10 years you'd say "I got really fat." I'm like

4:57

"Exactly." So that's how I know the revenue is going up And with that the value is going up There you go And so

5:05

over time I've learned not to chase you know proform irrra equity multiples I'm

5:10

chasing deals that I know are going to distribute at least 8% in the first year And as rents compound that's going to

5:17

grow And as that grows I'm creating wealth Yep So

5:23

it's it's a simple formula that that that's worked I'm not saying I'm the smartest guy but I have a formula that's

5:29

worked for myself and my investors and so my partners and we continue to deploy that uh as as how we do business If you

5:38

have something that works uh don't change it don't fix it It is uh just stick with it That is a good formula to

5:44

be to be following I feel like many years ago many years ago I was taught that if you couldn't analyze a real

5:50

estate deal on a on a cocktail napkin a 3x5 card maybe you shouldn't invest in

5:55

it Yeah I like that If you don't need Excel and you can just sit down with a piece of paper and jot it out yourself

6:02

makes it a solid investment Um I feel like it is unique though because multif family is you know it's one of the

6:08

hotter if not the hottest asset classes out there for investors Everybody loves to look at it Um you know there's a lot

6:15

of talk about multif family Obviously there's a lot of demand for housing so there's good reason for it But um I mean

6:20

you've kind of shunned that in favor of industrial which I feel like is pretty unique Um have you owned multif family

6:28

in the past or is industrial I is that just your what you're focused on 100% I've I've invested in a lot of multif

6:34

family Uh maybe you got out of some of it too early uh given how it continued

6:40

to run but you know what what do they say the bulls make money the bears make money and the pigs get slaughtered type

6:46

of thing on Wall Street Sorry so maybe I got out a couple years too early on some of the deals but we got into these deals

6:55

like in in Raleigh and Charlotte when everyone used to say where it was a flyover city The institutional guys are

7:01

like where now it's a hot market Uh so uh and and I'm invested in one multif

7:08

family property down in in Virginia which we actually have on the market to sell And I watched insurance go from

7:14

$285 a unit to $1,100 a unit in in a year and a half with all the natural

7:19

storms and disasters And all right we have very low leverage on it and it's

7:25

still generating some distributable cash flow but not what we thought Then I'm like you know what I don't need to be

7:31

subject to you know a shortage of of the A team staff and have to hire B people

7:37

or vendors uh wanting more and more money to renovate an apartment I think when we started you could do a

7:42

one-bedroom apartment with countertops cabinets you know flooring and everything for $10,000 Now it's up to

7:48

over 20 for a good renovation And and you got to like take a take a number and wait for them to get to you So it's just

7:56

so much you know so much easier not to be subject to to the gyrating operating expenses not to be at the mercy of

8:03

vendors or suppliers and and to have something where uh tenants typically

8:09

stay you the three-year leases with renewal options five years or seven the mix of things and and I can manage my

8:15

risk a lot better Well you've uh you've convinced me Um so you do both

8:20

industrial and small bay and by industrial I'm assuming you mean warehouse industrial correct yeah Yeah

8:26

Larger space you know we we I do very few single tenant you know industrial deals for the simp for the for really

8:32

for risk Uh that you know not everyone is going to sign a 30 or 40-year lease And if they're signing a 30-year lease

8:38

you as an owner are missing a lot of rent pops you know and I look at you know some of these big institutional

8:45

even the REITs that like these 30-year leases Well when rents really started to spike uh the last eight years they left

8:52

a lot of money on the table because you know uh you missed a lot of rent increases Yeah makes sense That's but

8:59

that but that's what they do Uh so we have a you know we'll do some single tenant deals where the tenant is tied to

9:05

the building and the workforce Uh and that's you know part of the due diligence if the I've invested in in two

9:11

single tenant deals One of them it was a basis play the tenant has a 15-year lease renewal options and they've been

9:18

in there for 30 years but didn't want to own the building anymore Uh and if they go out of business I could divide it

9:24

into three pieces and make another $2 a square foot but they pay like a clock Uh the other one we bought I'm invested in

9:31

is in the middle of Indiana They have 500 employees and they you know when you have 500 employees that work in three

9:38

shifts seven days a week you can't move more than a couple miles because you lose part of your workforce Yeah Uh and

9:45

so it's easier for them to pay $2 a square foot over a seven or 10 year period in rent increases than it is to

9:52

move to the other side of a state or another state and try to recreate your workforce Yeah that makes sense I've

9:58

never thought about that Yeah So so and when we look at you know smaller tenants uh in you know we have could be older

10:05

industrial lower ceiling heights or even the really shallow bay where uh you have really small tenants it's why is the

10:11

tenant there are they tied to their suppliers are they tied to their customers are they tied to their

10:16

workforce does the does senior management live in the area and they want something there like in Shallow Bay

10:23

tenants that are typically there have a need for a delivery dock for some reason They can't be in a traditional office

10:29

building And so in some of the Shallow Bay parks you find people with a large office percentage And they're there for

10:35

a reason Uh because they want to be They want control of their own space They have equipment that they can't get in

10:41

through a loading dock Uh it's a security issue So I might have you know

10:47

and you have some interesting tenants Some people you know they they raise tropical fish they start plants they

10:53

they they grow coral You have compounding Interesting Yeah

10:58

Compoundingarmacies you know nucleararmacies Wow uh uh genericarmacies that do you know

11:04

descript distribution for for you pills uh uh for medical groups

11:11

Uh you know some of the space might get used for like an indoor trampoline park in some of these places because it fits

11:16

good Uh think of you know the plumber the electrician the the carpenter They all need a little bit of an office space

11:24

park to put you know supplies in and maybe a couple doors to drive the trucks in and load down and go up to their customers So they're in everybody's

11:30

backyard but no one really ever thought about investing in them Yeah Uh one of one of my partners that's his main thing

11:36

is uh Small Bay and he absolutely loves it Um and yeah I've heard only good

11:41

things so far about Small Bay and uh and industrial you know multi-tenant

11:47

industrial How do you go about um finding these deals is it all through brokers or are you guys doing offmarket

11:52

stuff we we do some offmarket stuff Uh it's like if I happen to be driving

11:59

around and I see sometimes it's for sale or for rent I want to find out more about the property Sometimes if it's a

12:04

property we own we always canvas people that are around our existing properties Uh a lot of it does come through brokers

12:12

Uh either on an early look or or a third look after it gets dinged up and falls out of contract and they want someone

12:18

that'll close Uh you know brokers do serve a need in the market Uh I'm not the guy you come to if you want the

12:25

highest price though I'm the guy you you you come to uh if you want to close and

12:31

um I I personally invested in a deal that uh it's a third transaction with

12:37

the same seller and the hold was up and the private equity uh JV partner wasn't

12:42

giving the sponsor any more runway and they would have liked to get a couple more more dollars and they had a higher offer I said look I you know the sponsor

12:49

here bought two other deals from them You want someone that's going to close and not retrade you and you have a form

12:54

of contract and you know who you're dealing with or you want you want to take a high-f flyer and try to get an extra$2 million bottles Yep So

13:03

um that's interesting So you don't you do do offmarket stuff You do look for uh

13:09

for industrial that way Um is it percentage- wise is it mostly through

13:15

brokers or how how successful do you have you been just actually reaching out directly to the industrial the to the

13:21

actual owners well we reach out you know I guess maybe 10% of the stuff comes direct from owners that we talk to A lot

13:28

of the offmarket deals are are really I guess early look from a broker said "Hey

13:33

you know the seller doesn't want to do a full marketing What do you think let's try to make a deal." Uh we do a lot of

13:39

those And then the the other majority is deals that aren't getting traction anywhere and their broker is like "Look

13:45

just make me an offer Let's let's see if we we can get somewhere." Yeah Uh and so

13:51

you know we we analyze a lot of deals but I'm never going to chase a deal I'm going to wait for the deal to chase me

13:57

I'm getting to the same way I'm tired of like you know I've got I've closed enough deals and I'm just like I'm just

14:03

going to wait I'm not going to be so crazy about like chasing these guys and trying to get the deal done If it if it

14:08

comes it comes If it doesn't hey let's get off That's right You know you got to make your money on the buy you know so

14:14

you got to be uh patient Yep Um so two other things I want to talk about

14:20

location and I want to talk about return for these guys So I individually I buy

14:25

mobile home parks self- storage facilities and RV parks Um but I look for heavy value ad you know I'm looking

14:31

for a good cap rate at you know on the return essentially So like for RV parks

14:36

12 caps if once I do all the work and on on that side um what do you typically

14:42

look for in small bay and in multi-tenant um in terms of like your your onlo cap rate sure We're seeing a

14:50

lot of deals north of an eight on in place revenue and in place occupancy

14:56

Sometimes we're seeing nines and tens depending what the situation is why the seller is selling uh uh you know and

15:03

then again al a lot of it's based on the occupancy and what the remaining weighted average lease term is you know

15:11

t typically some people only want to buy if there's you know you know seven to 15

15:17

years left you know on the leases I don't mind buying if it's if it's a multi-tenant property if there's two or

15:22

three years left on the lease and I understand the market you know that's where the opportunity is industrial is

15:27

really a game of of nickels dimes and quarters of moving rents Uh and you know sometimes by having a

15:33

shorter lease I can get rid of tenants that I don't think are desirable and letting others expand Uh and and some

15:39

business owners especially on the on the smaller tenants even within a high

15:44

ceiling he high industrial building they can't see more than three to five years And so they might have a lease with

15:50

three plus two or three three-year options or five plus five because it's

15:55

hard for anybody to see signing you know a 20-year lease Uh especially if you're a smaller business because you don't

16:01

need unless they're like Johnson and Johnson or something Yeah Yeah Yeah Uh and even then if they want to terminate

16:07

early they have the money to pay a termination fee Yeah The smaller regional tenants don't want to be

16:12

exposed to that Uh and that really creates a lot of opportunity Yeah No that makes a lot of sense Um and you've

16:20

mentioned location a few times I feel like you know for for all real estate location is very important but for

16:25

industrial specifically I feel like it it um you will definitely live and die

16:31

by where you buy or where you build the the type of the facility where I'm sure

16:37

you you don't just look in one state Where generally do you look for property in terms of you know around the United

16:42

States and then within the lo those those locations do you like to look for certain areas in the city or or how do

16:48

you how do you define where you're trying to buy the properties we look for a lot of secondary locations adjacent to

16:56

you know major metropolitan areas You know if you think about the roadways around the United States you know

17:02

especially in the eastern to middle of the country north to south you know 65 75 85 95 going north to south you know

17:09

you get 90 uh uh uh 80 20 91 whatever's going you know 66 going east and west Uh

17:17

uh and typically these are in sort of uh major industrial areas anyway where

17:24

there's a lot of flex properties and tenants need to be there Sometimes you have a lot of rail access sometimes you

17:29

don't Sometimes they're inland ports that people have built over time Um but

17:35

you know I'm not I'm not chasing like the middle of Atlanta or I'm chasing stuff that's outside the perimeter road

17:42

north and south that has a reason to be there because the rents are you know 30 cents on the dollar and people want to

17:47

be there because it's better for their business Um I'm also not chasing A properties I'm chasing bees uh older

17:54

product uh that at a real discount to replacement cost That tells me it's always going to be full Yeah makes sense

18:01

How about square footage do you have a minimum square footage requirement uh maybe per bay per per property I guess

18:07

it's probably 100,000 square feet per property Uh you know probably $10 million acquisition cost on the low end

18:15

up to maybe 30 on the upper end I like to stay below you know the regional

18:20

targets and the the REITs and the nationals I don't want to compete with them because I also get better cap rates

18:25

on the small transactions They're le they're there are although there might be a lot of buyers there are less buyers

18:32

who know what they're doing Like especially on on the 10 to12 million range you have a lot of guys that you

18:38

know syndicators that used to do multif family or whatever are now trying to figure out another life for themselves

18:43

Yeah Poor guys Uh so for for those guys you know anybody listening to the

18:48

podcast who they hear what you're saying they're like you know what Irwin has it right He's got the right asset class and

18:54

they want to get into small bay or multi-tenant industrial What are how would you suggest they get started um

19:01

what type of properties do you suggest they look at um that kind of stuff Yeah they're probably in everybody's backyard

19:07

You drive by them You know you look at these buildings they might have a bunch of roll top doors in the side and

19:12

sometimes there's trucks or cars there uh they're in every town even in my town in northern New Jersey And and and so

19:20

you you look where where contractors might have a business you know whether it's a plumber an electrician a painter

19:26

Uh typically you find them there There might be smaller buildings You might be buying something that that looks like you know a three tenant garage building

19:34

Uh so it might be 20 or 30,000 feet if it's something that you wanted to start on your own Uh I would say that we've

19:41

learned that bigger is better I like the credits by diversity buying a building

19:46

that has you know eight to 15 tenants in it on the down on the low side because

19:51

someone's always going to be moving in you know there's going to be downtime and getting the next tenant to to to lease So you always want to make sure

19:57

you have enough cash flow to pay the mortgage Yeah Uh you know and not have

20:03

to call capital if if it's something you're going to bring in friends and family on Uh but it's a it's a great

20:09

asset class that's been very good to us even during co Yeah Yeah And that's the one Um it makes sense why you're not

20:16

looking for single tenant because that would scare me having just one tenant um renting such a large space from you Uh

20:22

because I'm you know the mortgage is going to be pretty high and the instant they they leave for whatever reason You

20:27

never know Things happen for every reason right and so once that happens and you're you're out of luck you

20:33

don't have a tenant pay and then uh things can get hairy pretty quickly So makes sense that you're looking for multi-tenant and then flex pay Of the

20:40

two which do you prefer multi-tenant uh or or flex pay we've done both It's it's

20:46

a question of of cash flow Uh the the the shallow or or or flex is just harder

20:52

to find below replacement cost uh because no one's building it anymore Uh but you know for us it's about you know

20:59

positive leverage cap rate versus financing rate uh and where we think we could take it Um so we're agnostic as

21:06

far as either one Uh it's it's a question of the the one thing that it has to have is positive cash flow when

21:12

we close Yeah Yes That is a good uh a good rule to have um going into

21:18

properties How about value ad what are the the types of value ad that you look for um you know if you want to improve

21:26

the property or I'm sure a lot of it has to do with the lease itself Um what are the different value ads that you guys do

21:31

yeah sometime sometimes we we we're still seeing deals that are modified gross or or gross leases we can convert

21:37

to net We're see we're looking for properties on oversized pieces of land because you could use it for truck

21:43

parking Uh or maybe a building expansion if you need You know in some states

21:48

there are incentives for solar So you might think about you know solar or battery storage or something on site

21:54

there Uh and then you know it it it it's a slow roasted investment It's not like

22:01

you know we trying to see trajectory of renovating as many units as fast as you can in multif family Yeah So there

22:06

there's always a a increased revenue strategy or or expansion strategy and uh

22:14

sometimes we buy buildings on excess pieces of land just because we know we can expand it and that you know

22:20

sometimes depending what's going on that's that helps you sell at a better price Yeah It's a covered land income

22:26

generating covered land play Uh and we're happy to do that as well Cool I

22:32

love it All right Uh and before we move to the quick question round we always like to talk about the economy because

22:38

uh it is a it's going up and down and there's a lot of people saying different things about what will happen So what is

22:44

if you looked into Irwin's crystal ball what would you say for the next two to three years um will happen in the G

22:51

economy in general well you know it's kind of interesting I was looking at a couple of newsletters and some of the uh

22:58

uh quotes from some of the the the dinosaurs the big the big boys in this in the industrial space you know and you

23:05

get uh guys like uh Clarion Partners who's part of Franklin Templeton who thinks the next two years going to be

23:11

great for buying great buying opportunities in general And they put that statement out before the the

23:16

current D-Day you know fiasco that we're experiencing here with tariffs Uh and

23:22

then I saw another article this morning came out in Co-Star where Blackstone thinks time to buy is during when

23:28

there's uncertainty And I think for the next four years we're going to experience a lot of uncertainty with the

23:34

current administration Okay So your your prognosis is now is a good time to buy

23:40

Yeah A and so and then I saw something also in one of the trade publications with prologus who's a huge dinosaur in

23:47

in class A industrial that they're they're going to uh put a lot of

23:52

development projects on hold right now Oh okay Even with the what what might be

23:57

an increased demand with all this push for onshoring you know the tariffs are creating uncertainty as far as

24:04

construction costs and if you can't you don't know what your yield on cost is why are you building if you don't know what your return is What is the um

24:10

what's the price per square foot uh on build cost for you know industrial for I

24:16

small bay I guess in well depending on kind of small bay some people you know

24:21

use metal panels corrugated panels insulated panels and you might have spaces for the fire code

24:28

type of stuff I really like concrete or brick uh and that stuff is without the land it could be$150 or $200 a square

24:36

foot okay plus land and and things like that uh and so a lot of the buildings

24:41

we've bought are less than $100 a square foot and those are occupied buildings Wow Which is pretty good U but but

24:49

tariffs have created you know a lot of uncertainty and when you look at the way uh the stock market has gyrated uh so

24:57

I'm hearing some some of the my investors is like we don't know if we're going to invest anything in anytime soon

25:03

or we're going to invest less because we want to have more cash on hand we're seeing you know cost of living increase

25:08

and operating expenses and our businesses you know it's the same thing I'm experiencing Uh and then on the the

25:16

from the from the financing side it's like if you're like we've done a lot of CNBS loans over the years If you have to

25:23

deal with a lender now the lenders don't know what's going on So you can't trust

25:29

anything Even if it's someone you've closed with before I don't know how anyone is gonna fance all the deals are

25:34

sort of getting stagnated or you normally you would have gotten you know 10 offers or or five offers and now

25:40

you're lucky to get one and it's ugly Uh so it it's kind of an interesting time

25:45

unless you're fortunate to have something that's you know straight down the center of the fairway

25:52

Uh it it might be difficult to finance unless you're willing to provide recourse Yeah makes sense Um yeah the

25:59

stock market has been I don't I don't do the stock market anymore or I did for a second but I uh learned my lesson and I

26:05

said "You know what i'm sticking to real estate." Um but I have some friends that that play the stock market and they've been having a ball with this up and down

26:12

So uh it's definitely an interesting time That's for sure No it is an interesting time It's just that you know

26:18

I've learned not to open any statements and I keep telling people not to open their statements and and uh everything

26:24

will get better but it might not be told there's a change of administration a change of thought Yeah we'll see All

26:30

right that leads us uh to the quick question Ryan are you ready to rock sure go ahead Let's do it It starts with

26:37

education Could be any form could be a conference you've been to a mentorship program you've been a part of book

26:42

you've read movie you've seen anything But I need two recommendations One for general life wisdom and then one for real estate Sure I I guess in general

26:50

it's it's you know you never give up Now is the time You know if you don't put 100% effort in and believe in yourself

26:56

100% nobody else is ever going to Uh and one of the guys I I know for a very long time that I follow on social media

27:03

basically self-made guys is Gary Vernich Gary Vee Oh yeah And so and Gary Vee you

27:08

know it's fun to watch He doesn't sugarcoat anything He tells you the way it is And he's been very successful at

27:15

it And I think you know young people and older people can still learn a lot from him Uh you know I would say if you go

27:22

into a meeting you know you know never assume you're the smartest person in the world Uh because there's something to be

27:30

learned along the way from everybody Uh and you know it was hard when I was

27:36

younger but you know my grandfather once said to me you know if if if you keep your mouth closed people will give you

27:42

the benefit of the doubt If you open your mouth there will be no doubt That's funny That's a wise grandpa right there

27:48

Yeah I So over the years I've learned to be more of a listener And you know and

27:54

then my father added on to that previous thought He says you know sometimes even if you know the answer and you're a

27:59

thousand% sure it it it in your best interest to say to somebody you know that's kind of interesting Let me think

28:05

about it and get back to you I just want to check my facts or just do a little research It makes you sound like you're

28:10

putting a lot more thought and effort into it Uh it makes you sound you know a little more disciplined that you're

28:17

going to do some extra due diligence on their behalf even if you you know what all the facts and figures are at the top of your head sometimes you know being a

28:24

little patient especially if you're trying to uh attract somebody to do business with may they get a little more

28:30

impressed when how thoughtfulness that you're putting into your answer Yeah I like that One of my uh the favorite

28:36

books that I've read I can't I don't even remember the title but it was Benjamin Franklin Um one of I can't remember the book that he wrote but it

28:42

was talking about how being tactful in um your communication and using patience

28:48

even when you know that you're right Uh I think that's really wise Um especially it's really difficult uh when you're

28:54

younger especially to you know keep your mouth shut and just not talk so much But listening is definitely the the stronger

29:01

strength or the stronger position to be taken there So I like that All right

29:06

Next question is for your younger self Uh let's go back to the Irwin who was um still a CPA you know going paper to pen

29:14

just uh going through the the motions there go back to him look him in the eye give him one piece of advice moving

29:20

forward Uh that that's kind of interesting to

29:25

step back that far Uh I I I don't know maybe I you should I

29:31

would have stayed an accountant a couple years more and try to learn a little more Uh you know maybe outside of real estate

29:39

while I was still you know from an accountant's point of view But I find that I I I am appreciative of having

29:45

that accounting degree over you know a business or finance degree because when I when was a banker I I I remember

29:52

having a borrower come to me and uh I've only done like three single family loans

29:58

involved with them for for my borrowers and I had to explain to people who underwrite single family loans how to

30:04

read a tax return I have a woman with an extremely high net worth bidding on a house at auction $2 and half million

30:11

dollar house and they call me up and say "We can't lend her any money She doesn't have any income." I'm like "What are you talking about?" Well we're looking at

30:16

her tax returns She has no taxable income I I said I said "Pull out the schedule C's." I'm like "You see those

30:22

non-cash items what's a non-cash item?" I said "Depreciation and amortization." I said "Those are non-cash items Add

30:29

those back because they're not expenses that you actually have to pay." What do you mean you don't pay them is that a

30:36

real tax return they're that there you know it's not accurate I'm like no the I had to explain what depreciation was and

30:41

how the government lets you do that I said if you add both those back those numbers back and they call me back oh yeah she's got a

30:48

lot I said she doesn't have to pay tax on it because of depreciation and advertisation Yeah So it it's helped me

30:55

dissect financial statements and read footnotes because sometimes you have to read those on a tenant Uh what's going

31:02

on Yeah And understand financial statements and how to present properly Uh and and I I I think that if I had

31:11

maybe spent another year or two as an accountant I I'd understand uh ear at an earlier stage how to put together

31:18

financial statements Yeah Uh so there's always something to learn You know what they say is hindsight is always 2020 You

31:24

It's like you at every time in our life we'd say you know what I wish I was 10 years younger Here's what I would have

31:30

done different Something like that Yeah that's right Uh yeah you know I I've thought before that I wish I would have

31:35

taken an accounting class in um in college I I got like a philosophy degree because I was going to be a lawyer and

31:42

completely useless now but uh accounting would have been a nice nice class to take because now that you're looking at all these sheets especially you know

31:48

depreciation I understand what it is now but I didn't when I was coming out of college So it's uh it's definitely a

31:53

useful skill to have All right going on to the next question This is about the US It's a big place There is a lot of

32:00

opportunity out there Give me the single metro you're most excited about investing in today I I I like you know

32:08

as far as a metro I like Indianapolis Um you know and I like the I like Indiana

32:14

Uh you know I like spoken wheel cities So you got Indiana you got Columbus you got

32:19

Cincinnati you got Atlanta because you know you think of north south east west traffic as well as you know the

32:26

circulating cars around them So I really like those those areas uh for investing

32:32

I think more of the investing especially now that with this onshoring that people want to say they're going to build factories here I said if it's something

32:39

you're going to speculate in be careful because I think when people really think

32:45

about some of these proposed tariffs and the amount of capital that is to build

32:51

some of these facilities and then the return you're going to want on these facilities they may not really it may

32:57

really boost the cost you know may not be worth it Uh and I think that's what the administration hasn't calculated in

33:03

Yeah I'm all for onshoring and some of these businesses are just I don't think are ever coming back Uh because the cost

33:10

of production and what the consumer would have to pay Uh so I I I would say look at cities that are growing and you

33:17

can really look at that by population migration That'll tell you where the demand is And then you know follow

33:23

follow the headlines See what companies are growing what companies are adding headcounts That'll tell you if if

33:29

they're a good tenant or not Just you know I you know it's one thing I do in during you know tell me about your business You know I'm not looking at

33:34

rent comps and sales comps like in this like you might in a multif family I like to talk to the the platform manager you

33:42

know facilities manager Tell me about your business You know what's the average tenure how long is the average commute and what do you guys do here

33:49

what do you like about the location uh so I really think there are a lot of opportunities in this space for people

33:55

Yeah absolutely All right Uh next question is about lessons learned It's

34:01

not all um roses in real estate In fact many times we something goes wrong and we get to learn a lesson So what was a

34:07

deal that went a little bit sideways for you guys and then what was the lesson you hold from it well I guess on the multif family side I

34:14

I had a lot of deals with unexpected you know underground utilities going bad rotting out and

34:21

insurance spiking that you never really counted on your insurance tripling in in a single year Uh you know things like

34:27

that So uh I learned that on the multif family and early on we had some single

34:32

tenant buildings like 15 years ago and uh they filed for bankruptcy once and

34:38

then they were bought by a private equity shop and we figured they were going to be good and then they filed for bankruptcy a second time and we ended up

34:44

giving the the buildings back to the lender and then working with the lender to try to maximize the sales proceeds

34:49

because we knew the buildings really well and trying to make get them as whole as as they could uh even though

34:54

the loans were non-reourse So uh that's why we're very sensitive to single tenant buildings There's got to be a

35:00

reason for investing in a single tenant building now for us I'm not chasing cash flow just because it's a nice and this

35:05

was a big this was a big name back then Uh but uh I've learned to stay away from

35:11

single tenant It's all about diversity Yep Makes sense All right that leads us to the last question This is for the

35:18

listeners You've given us a lot to think about I'm sure people want to reach out get in contact with you Uh this is a two-parter Where can they find you and

35:24

then what can they expect when they reach out uh you can find me anywhere on social media whether it's LinkedIn

35:30

Instagram Facebook Just put Irwin Boris into the search bar Uh you'll find me uh you hit LinkedIn you'll find the uh uh

35:38

on my profile or link to my calendar You want to talk we can talk Uh even you

35:43

know as you know on with our investors I like to do the investor relations It's not like you're talking to somebody in

35:49

the middle that is so disconnected from the property because I'm involved with the acquisition the the strategy the

35:54

asset management and the closing I can tell you about the deal and why we like the deal where it's not somebody reading

36:00

off a script uh that has to get back to you U and and it's all about really

36:06

cultivating cultivating long-term friendships uh w with with our our investors We treat them as partners Uh

36:12

and we you know we try to you know be involved You know like I have my kids are going to college All of our

36:18

investors kids are going to college We're comparing notes on colleges university tours Uh we talk about wine

36:23

We talk about tequila and vacations and and so you know we like to get to know people on more than a personal level

36:29

It's you know it's not just like a give me money we'll send you a check type of thing It's you know why you you know

36:35

what are you trying to achieve you know tell me some of the obstacles you've you know hit over the years you know I'm

36:40

trying to help people uh and give them the benefit of of my knowledge and and you know and once in a while I learn

36:45

something from other people as well There you go Yeah real estate is first and foremost a relationship business So

36:52

I love to hear that I will put those links in the show notes So if you guys want to reach out to Irwin all you got to do is just click the little more in

36:58

the description It'll pull down that full description and in there you can find his links All right man That was uh that was

37:05

great Thank you very much for hopping on the show No Gabe it's always a pleasure to to get on and try to help people

37:11

along with their journeys to financial freedom All right for everybody who's with us today thank you guys for showing

37:17

up You are the reason we do this So if you guys have any questions reach out to me Gabe at the real estate

37:22

investingclub.com If you guys want to support the show just leave us a review Other than that I hope you guys have a great week Keep rocking real estate and

37:29

I look forward to seeing you on the next episode